Archive for July, 2010

Moi has no place in this constitutional debate….

Transcript of a facebook debate on Moi’s meddling with the CoE draft:

Dan Toro

Baba wa taifa

where else in the world does a retired president go around undermining and lambasting a sitting president and government? Especially being a man whom the rest of the world treats with the contempt he deserves. Not even Bush does that to Obama? MO1 opposing the draft is by itself enough reason to vote YES

Okechukwu TheDon at 11:38 yesterday
True dat

Man Mao at 11:51 yesterday
that’s the silliest thing ever. it’s like saying uhuru supporting the draft is reason enough to vote no.

are you voting for the contents of the document or personalities?

Mwalyo Ndulu at 11:52 yesterday
empty head!!is he not supposed to express his opinion.

Eugene Murenjekha at 12:17 yesterday
wachaneni na wes. he has a point. there are some people who are too repulsive to imagine sharing with them an opinion, and for me, moi is it. uhuru, to paraphrase a coleague is unarmed with wits, so he doesnt count.

Wes at 12:20 yesterday
the silliest thing ever is you two deluded sheeple coming onto my status telling me about empty headedness when you don’t even get my point, I was in fact considering not even dignifying your asinine knee-jerk reactions but you give me no options but to force feed you common sense. Moi opposing the draft is not about personality, it’s about why, if you sit in a committee of wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for lunch, does it not matter then that the wolves would have a unanimous decision, you think a despot opposes a constitution because he loves you or the God you claim to worship and who’s name you soil in a fight to hold on to ill-gotten vast swathes of land ripped out of the hands of those displaced by colonialists the precursors of whom were your revered missionaries, you think it’s a good look to show your teeth and dance at rallies for MO1 and his ilk while they protect their loot and you walk to your hovel with the promise of heavenly miracles while your televangelists and Rutos and Jirongos drive off in the earthly miracles of vogues and Kompressors. Get your heads out of your nether regions and open your eyes. MO1 is not your friend, the enemy of my enemy is a friend, the friend of my enemy is my enemy.
PS: The reason a dog has so many friends is that he he’s quick to wag his tail instead of his tongue.

Man Mao at 12:21 yesterday
@eugene: uhuru’s family represents land grabbers worldwide… so when they tell you land reforms are coming it’s amazing that you believe them!

Innocent Induli at 12:24 yesterday
How can one abandon their child for others to raise then after 24 yrs u stand infront of people to tell them the child isnt wearing Armani …

Man Mao at 12:30 yesterday
@wes: there.you are still silly.

i am not voting no BECAUSE OF MOI OR ANYONE ELSE. i’m voting no because I HAVE READ THE DRAFT AND BELIEVE ITS POOR! period.

you on the other hand want to vote yes coz of moi. very silly indeed.

Eugene Murenjekha at 12:34 yesterday
as i said, uhuru is a non starter in the mental gymnastics that are our politics. as the draft says, such lands acquired illegally shall be repossesed, and if uhuru is forved to support the draft and silently plot for its failure then so be it, for it will pass and the lands will be returned. meanwhile whats ur beef?

Mwalyo Ndulu at 12:35 yesterday
My point still stands!empty head!!am voting on issues not personalities.save ur silly village argument to ur villagemates .

Man Mao at 12:39 yesterday
@eugene: ati ‘such lands acquired illegally shall be repossesed’ HAHAHA! who tells you kenyatta’s land is classified as ILLEGAL?

you will be sooo shocked when you vote yes and the kenyattas ,mois and delameres still retain ‘their’ very legal land. they have TITLES to it!

hapo hakuna land reform ya mtu!

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 12:49 yesterday
you Einsteins do not even comprehend simple grammar, I’m at a loss as to whether it’s even justified that I have to break down what was a rhetorical statement. SMH! I said Moi opposing the draft is by itself enough reason to vote YES, did I say that is the reason I’ll vote YES, did I even say what am voting? Can you grasp the simple notion that besides the very strong reasons to vote yes, the revolting characters propping the NO side are by themselves enough reason to question yourself even if you thought you had a good reason to oppose this draft, were the devil to say tomorrow he is opposing the draft will you two ignoramuses open your pie holes to tell me about personalities? You think policies and issues are not shaped by personalities? You think when I look to one side and see personalities who have fought for and paid dues for reform and on the other side I see a clergy that has been anti-reform since the dark ages and characters who detained and maimed those who sought reform, how hard is it to tell which side is, and has always been, anti-reform?

I didn’t wish to turn this into an ad hominem rant, but you two MO1 pawns are the dumb and dumber of this thread, I want to see that you have the guts to lay a premise for your hot air and not throw epithets and harp on a line I keep breaking down for you. You come at me you better be prepared, otherwise I will keep lifting up your skirts to expose you little whining girls. Idiots….

Eugene Murenjekha at 12:56 yesterday
iza wes, you will bust a vein arguing with these fools, who, clearly will bring down to their level and beat you with experience. hauwezi funza watu wengine.

Mwalyo Ndulu at 12:58 yesterday
A rattled,silly, empty head at its best!!I regret bringing masef down to ur level of empty rhetorics n verbatim.enuff empty head.

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 13:07 yesterday
besides having made no point to advancey your position whatsoever, that ish you just wrote didn’t even make sense; what is maself? what is empty verbatim? The only thing you seem to keep mentioning is empty headedness, were you told that a lot growing up?

Man Mao at 13:14 yesterday
@ wes: this is my beef with you… you said :

‘ MO1 opposing the draft is by itself enough reason to vote YES’

NO IT IS NOT! period! don’t even try to justify that statement. it makes ZERO SENSE.

look at THE DRAFT, not at the people opposing or defending it.period.

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 13:16 yesterday
@Eugene, don’t worry about it, am having fun exposing this lames, it feels dirty tearing their little masks off to expose their clueless dazed visage but I’m remorseless cauz they walked into my house and insulted me to my face first, I just want to see how long it will be before they delete their threads and run off in shame to cry in their little corners

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 13:25 yesterday
@Mao, do I really have to explain this again? MO1 isn’t just a person, he is an a retired president who stood for something, that something was an anti-reformist stance and violent suppression of those who sought reform, if the mere fact this are the strange bedfellows you have on your side isn’t reason enough to question your stand then I really can only conclude you’re voting on faith/fear or you have a closed mind regarding the issue. I’m not saying anyone should vote NO because of MO1, but in the event someone was to come out of a coma on August 4th a minute to the close of polling and had to ask one question and he asked who is supporting Yes and was told Raila, Orengo, Ngilu, Shikuku, Kiraitu, Karua, Gibson Kuria, Muite and then was told NO was fronted by MO1, Ruto, Jirongo, Kalembe etc really what conclusion would you have him reach?

Man Mao at 13:34 yesterday
unless his brain was affected , the coma victim’s first question should be WHAT DOES THE DRAFT SAY REGARDING (insert area of choice)….

who is supporting what is IMMATERIAL, FOREVER!

Simbili Martins at 13:44 yesterday
@wes. You’ve made ur point. Washana na hii kubaff mbili Mao na Mwalya or silly na empty-head respectively. Its like playin jazz guitar to two goats. We hav a date on 4th. We shud be reading article 262 of the draft instead: Transitional &consequential provisions .

Muchai Wa Kamau at 13:47 yesterday
Wes, i pity you. Never hav a battle of wits with unarmed opponents….I think its a NO diversional tactic to dwell on the unsaid n clearly ignore the fact at hand. its not about MO1 as a human but ‘as wisely put by the guy who mentioned an Armani above’. YES.

Man Mao at 13:47 yesterday
@simbili : you said ‘We shud be reading article ….’

tha’s the only sensible thing you said. WE SHOULD ALL BE READING AND DEBATING THE DRAFT!

not having petty arguments about sijui who is on which side!

plus this draft EXTENDS BEYOND THE 4TH and into the lives of FUTURE GENERATIONS! so there is nothing special about the 4th, but beyond is special!

Man Mao at 13:59 yesterday
i sincerely hope you are voting YES because you have READ the thing and believe it is BENEFICIAL…

including the clause on ECONOMIC DEVOLUTION and PRIVATE AND COMMUNAL LAND TENURE (among many other clauses that are full of loopholes).

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 13:59 yesterday
unfortunately that is not how it works, ideally it should be so but it’s not, even some groupd oppose sections of the draft based on personal feelings/beliefs or because of a personality they aspire to emulate that they call God, now personality by definition is:

personality
• n. (pl. personalities)
1 the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual’s distinctive character.

So is God, Satan, Budha, Allah a personality? Do their opinions matter? Does Hitler’s support for something Mandela opposes matter?

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 14:09 yesterday
and no am not voting for the draft because MO1 opposes it, but the fact he does tells me I made the right decision, if the retired president were to suddenly begin supporting the document then regardless of what I believe I have understood I would have to go over the document with a fine toothcomb to make sure there was no trap, in reverse, MO1 and his thieving anti-reform cronies affirm my belief in the choice I have made, just as it would be very re-assuring to know what opinion the evil one and the loving one have on this document

Man Mao at 14:15 yesterday
hahahaha! i still don’t think it’s a strong bbasis for opposing the thing.

did you know the old man is a STRICT teetotaler? that’s like saying you will start drinking in protest of this!

anyway, i’m voting NO because i do not believe in economic devolution or in private and communal ownership of land.

if moi changes camp tomorrow, i STILL wont believe in the aforementioned so i’ll still vote NO!

Tim Alala at 14:45 yesterday
Sema Wes, i see you still being misunderstood. one thing you have to understand is that you first point if not understood and on seconds they stil do not and hang on literally to every word you say be it rhetorical or euphemistic….wachana nao. any way hope you good. what are you up to nowadays since the funny days of bush

Andrew Munya at 14:52 yesterday
@Man Mao what would you rather have instead of ‘ economic devolution or private and communal ownership of land?’

Christopher Naicca at 14:53 yesterday
i was having a tough day but this thread just made my day! Good thing is i know all participants here can take a punch!

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 15:04 yesterday
Sema Tim, mimi niko tu, Architect huku Nairobi and facebook activist.

Mao, just thought I’d bring up the fact in addition to being a teetotaler and a non-smoker, Adolf Hitler is often said to have practiced some form of vegetarianism, so what does that say for teetotallers? And yeah, Churchill was a pipe-smoking drunk.

Andrew Munya at 15:06 yesterday
Ndulu and Mao: aint a fan of politics! matter of fact i could care less about the constitution and reform, having been raised under moi’s rule for the better half of my life and seeing what went down during those times. i was going to vote ‘NO’ until i heard Mo1’s stand. For to me, MO1 is not a pesronality. Mo1 is an ideology and the epitome of what true democracy and reform rejects. So i asked myself, what is the best use i can put this vote to? to say ‘no’ alongside mo1 or to say ‘yes’ in protest of his ideology?

Kinoti Nyangi at 15:42 yesterday
-[sigh]-

Michael Rajula Adimo at 15:46 yesterday
quote of the day “and no am not voting for the draft because MO1 opposes it, but the fact he does tells me I made the right decision, if the retired president were to suddenly begin supporting the document then regardless of what I believe I have understood I would have to go over the document with a fine toothcomb to make sure there was no trap, in reverse, MO1 and his thieving anti-reform cronies affirm my belief in the choice I have made, just as it would be very re-assuring to know what opinion the evil one and the loving one have on this document” Wesley Ng’ang’a Asubwa 2010.

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 15:48 yesterday
In Nation online today “Moi answers Kibaki on Constitution”http://www.nation.co.ke/Referendum/Moi%20answers%20Kibaki%20on%20Constitution/-/926046/966280/-/w4kpnm/-/index.html :
Moi has said Kibaki has no right to criticise him as he promised Kenyans a new constitution within 100 days of assuming power in 2002 but that had yet to happen, eight years later… SO IF WE VOTE NO AS MOI WANTS US TO THAT WILL PROVE WHAT? THAT WE’D RATHER CUT OFF OUR NOSES TO SPITE OUR FACES? HOW MANY YEARS DID MOI HAVE TO DELIVER EVEN MINIMUM REFORMS? GTFOUH WITH THAT BS!

Ken ‘mugzoh’ Mugane at 16:13 yesterday
now that i have stopped laughing, let me say i will vote yes coz of this status!!!!

Mwalyo Ndulu at 16:23 yesterday
i can only laugh to wat wes thread has generated to….

Man Mao at 17:17 yesterday
all voting YES because of moi ARE NOT WISE !

30 years from now, when your kids ask you

‘dad/mum,why did you vote in a faulty constitution that is still screwing us up today?’

you will tell them ‘ it was because moi was in the no camp’.

then they will ask you ‘WHO THE HELL IS MOI AND WHERE IS HE NOW’?

what will be your reply then??????

jisomee, jiamulie, jichagulie. moi is not mentioned ANYWHERE IN THAT DRAFT! why is he an issue?????

Ken ‘mugzoh’ Mugane at 17:38 yesterday
Wes some of your pals are quite retarded if i dare say so myself!!

Kinoti Nyangi at 18:23 yesterday
-[deep sigh]-

Simbili Martins at 18:34 yesterday
Find Riz khan (aljazeera) on facebook on this debate. Lets brainstorm pple. @Mao @Mwalyo: u are doomed. What kind of intellect is that. U are just clever fools @Wes : kudos!

Man Mao at 18:44 yesterday
HAHAHAHA! i have given my reasons for voting no.(poor land policy and anti economic devoluion) THEY DO NOT INVOLVE ANY PERSONALITIES.

you are all yet to give your reasons for voting yes WITHOUT INVOLVING A PERSONALITY….

judge for yourself who between us is retarded 🙂

matusi tu ndio mnajua kutupa lakini sababu za ku-vote yes HAMNA!

wes why are you voting yes? what is your stand on the land policy and on economic devolution?

Gituma Nturibi at 18:46 yesterday
LOL si Moi alisema hamtamsahau?

Man Mao at 18:48 yesterday
let’s remove the mois and odingas from this debate and go to THE DOCUMENT ITSELF! then you tell us WHY YOU ARE VOTING YES and then read above WHY I AM VOTING NO.

you will soon realise the draft is not a REFORMIST DOCUMENT like it is made to appear!

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 20:43 yesterday
I’m voting yes because I would still vote yes for anything even 10% better than now, who the hell refuses a 95% improvement on something using issues on which a consensus will never be achieved? How do you believe sectarian and parochial even whimsical demands by religious zealots, politically conservative wingnuts and irrelevant senile dinosaurs can be reconciled with progressive ideals? Even a simple poll of those contributing here will tell you what a majority of right thinking people have decided. There are bits of the draft I’d rather were more liberal but you don’t see me throwing a hissy fit demanding all or nothing. What happens if you defeat this constitution, you win what? Zero sum game.

Alex Gachanja at 21:22 yesterday
kudos Wes….. cant teach a fool. washana nao

Man Mao at 13:59
there lies your error!

you are comparing the draft TO THE EXISTING DOCUMENT! who asked you to?

i am comparing the draft to AN IMPROVED DRAFT. yaani if i vote no we will be forced to IMPROVE THIS DRAFT, not STICK TO THE OLD DOCUMENT! who wants the old document anyway.

now give us GENUINE REASONS for voting yes… that one isn’t solid at all

Man Mao at 18:44 yesterday
HAHAHAHA! i have given my reasons for voting no.(poor land policy and anti economic devoluion) THEY DO NOT INVOLVE ANY PERSONALITIES.

you are all yet to give your reasons for voting yes WITHOUT INVOLVING A PERSONALITY….

judge for yourself who between us is retarded 🙂

matusi tu ndio mnajua kutupa lakini sababu za ku-vote yes HAMNA!

wes why are you voting yes? what is your stand on the land policy and on economic devolution?

Gituma Nturibi at 18:46 yesterday
LOL si Moi alisema hamtamsahau?

Man Mao at 18:48 yesterday
let’s remove the mois and odingas from this debate and go to THE DOCUMENT ITSELF! then you tell us WHY YOU ARE VOTING YES and then read above WHY I AM VOTING NO.

you will soon realise the draft is not a REFORMIST DOCUMENT like it is made to appear!

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 20:43 yesterday
I’m voting yes because I would still vote yes for anything even 10% better than now, who the hell refuses a 95% improvement on something using issues on which a consensus will never be achieved? How do you believe sectarian and parochial even whimsical demands by religious zealots, politically conservative wingnuts and irrelevant senile dinosaurs can be reconciled with progressive ideals? Even a simple poll of those contributing here will tell you what a majority of right thinking people have decided. There are bits of the draft I’d rather were more liberal but you don’t see me throwing a hissy fit demanding all or nothing. What happens if you defeat this constitution, you win what? Zero sum game.

Alex Gachanja at 21:22 yesterday
kudos Wes….. cant teach a fool. washana nao

Man Mao at 13:59
there lies your error!

you are comparing the draft TO THE EXISTING DOCUMENT! who asked you to?

i am comparing the draft to AN IMPROVED DRAFT. yaani if i vote no we will be forced to IMPROVE THIS DRAFT, not STICK TO THE OLD DOCUMENT! who wants the old document anyway.

now give us GENUINE REASONS for voting yes… that one isn’t solid at all.

Wes Ng’ang’a Asubwa at 14:44
No, you’re fooling yourself, what improved document are you comparing it to, as a matter of fact who says that whatever problems you have with the draft are the same ones everyone is in agreement with? I don’t like abortion on demand, but I believe I have no right to dictate women’s productive rights issues, I like devolution and I especially like the new land laws which you say you don’t, so how would a new better document look like, how would it accomodate things we disagree on? I have no problem with Kadhi courts, the clergy does, if they get their way in another document what does that mean for me and for muslims who use this court? How exactly would you liket the draft improved and what makes you think the things you’ll be “improving” wont be seen as worsening in other people’s views? Besides we can only compare a proposal to what exists, we can’t compare it to an utopian concept of 100% consensus, if such a thing were even possible then there wouldn’t be a need for a referendum at all. If at all you agree with me that this document is a much better one than what we have and you are aware that there is actually no constitutional framework in place for any other document, improved or not, to be tabled , you should no doubt refrain from wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater. IF WE LET THIS CHANCE TO ENACT A NEW CONSTITUTION PASS, IT WILL BE YEARS, IF EVER, BEFORE WE GET ANOTHER CHANCE.

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Wonderbra forbidden, serious

No propping

“They love life, we love death, the blood will continue to flow”

Those are the chilling words that often accompany the death wish that suicide bombers have, the blood bath of which they invite hapless and often innocent victims, far removed from their grievances, to partake in.

I will be the first to admit that the longer I live, the less faith I’m having in humanity and even worse am beginning to see a direct correlation between organized religions (or their misinterpretation to be precise) and the conflicts in the world.

Across the border from Kenya lies Somalia, this is a land with the dubious distinction of being one in which the study of a government of anarchy could be done practically, I recognize there’s a supposed central government in the name of the Transitional Federal Government, but anyone familiar with the chaotic political imbroglio that is the horn of Africa should know that the lame duck President of the TFG is nothing more than the mayor of a town; a besieged town.

The persons with the real say in most of Somalia are the dreaded “Harakat al-Shabaab al-Mujahideen” which loosely translates into Movement of Warrior Youth. Recent intelligence reports point to this group, commonly referred to as Al-Shabbab, as being in control of most of southern and central Somalia including the capital of Mogadishu, this in spite of the group being estimated at a paltry 4,000 to 7,000 militants.

Initially Al-Shabaab began as an off-shoot of the Islamic Courts Union which had been forcefully removed from power by the Ethiopian army, but it is an understatement to say it has morphed into an almost unrecognizable fundamentalist group, both imposing a draconian interpretation of Islamic law and waging what it calls a war against “enemies of Islam”. It has even been constantly attacking food aid organizations trying to alleviate the suffering of close to 4 million Somali IDPs, killing over 40 relief workers between 2008 and 2010.

Some of the bizarre and manifestly barbaric edicts and actions of this group include:

  • A declaration of war of the United Nations and Non Governmental Organizations withing Somalia
  • The stoning to death of a 13 year old girl accused of adultery, the execution was done while she was buried up to her neck in the pitch of a soccer stadium in Kismayo packed with spectators, it later emerged she had actually been gang raped.
  • Recently, in the coastal town of Merca, Al-Shabaab decreed that gold and silver dental fillings were un-Islamic, and dispatched patrols to yank them out of people’s mouths using crude instruments
  • In late 2009 they began the public whipping of women for wearing bras which they claimed violated Islam as they are ‘deceptive’. Gunmen were sent into the streets of Mogadishu to round up any women who appear to have firm busts for inspection to see if the firmness is natural, or if it is the result of wearing a bra. If found wearing a bra, they were ordered to remove it and shake their breasts after receiving a whipping from masked men
  • The group has also banned the ringing of school bells as un-Islamic. Bell ringing is, in the words of Sheik Farah Kalar, “a sign of the Christian churches”.
  • Musical ringtones are not allowed on mobile phones
  • Watching sports, such as the World cup, is forbidden and two Somali men caught watching the World cup in June 2010 paid for it with their lives.

On 11th July 2010, Al-Shabaab claimed responsibility for bombings in Kampala, Uganda which killed 74 people, this is especially unsettling when it is noted that as recently as 7th February 2010 the militant group declared a jihad on Kenya over what were unsubstantiated claims that Kenya was training Somali troops.

How prepared Kenya’s, or indeed our ally, Ethiopia’s, governments are regarding preventing any such threat is to most a matter of conjecture, all I can hope for is that, considering the global phenomenon of a slide towards home-grown militants, the large Kenyan population with Somali roots and who are mostly moderate will stand with our intelligence in helping put paid to the match of this extremists who have no regard for human life, including their own.

I’m not a Muslim but my research into the one religion that is a way of life and from the analysis of reading Muslim scholars it’s clear that there’s no place for wanton violence or mass murder by suicide of fellow human beings, for in Islam:

Suicide is forbidden.  “O ye who believe!… [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful.  If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire…” (Qur’an 4:29-30).

The taking of life is allowed only by way of justice (i.e. the death penalty for murder), but even then, forgiveness is better.  “Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause…” (17:33).

In pre-Islamic Arabia, retaliation and mass murder was commonplace.  If someone was killed, the victim’s tribe would retaliate against the murderer’s entire tribe.  This practice was directly forbidden in the Qur’an (2:178-179).  Following this statement of law, the Qur’an says, “After this, whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave chastisement” (2:178).  No matter what wrong we perceive as being done against us, we may not lash out against an entire population of people.

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